The True Identity of the Woman in Revelation 12! Pt 6

(Ver 1.1)  We have been exploring the identity of the woman in Revelation 12.  In my last blog I know I left a lot of people hanging because I just couldn’t go into the detail that I needed to explain it thoroughly.  It is very difficult and challenging to teach a subject that is highly complex and is so totally new to everyone.  I feel I need to give Bible reasons for everything that I say and I only can do that in a limited time and space.  So I try to balance not taking up too much of your time with getting enough details in to confirm everything that I say.  If you are a pastor, I am sure you know what I am talking about.  If you have not been following this series from the beginning, I would strongly recommend that you go back and start with Part 1.

So rather than rehashing my last blog, please allow me to approach this subject in a way that you might not expect.  I think that if it is as we have seen that this woman in Revelation 12 is the church and if she is married and in covenant with the risen savior Jesus Christ, that we should determine if this man Jesus can have any spiritual children?  I think you might be surprised to find that He can.  Let us first start with some Bible basics.  We know that Jesus is the Son of God, the second person of the triune Godhead.  The Trinity of God being comprised of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.  These three unique personalities make up the One True Living God.   Three personalities, but One God.  Three manifestations of One God.  So let’s start by confirming that God is called a Father in the Bible:

Heb 12:9  Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

We can clearly see that God is called the Father of spirits in this verse in Hebrews.  We should immediately try to determine who are these spirits that God is said to be the Father of.  By implication we can see that this verse at least implies that every spirit has their origin from God.  We can say this includes every spirit of every man, woman and child on the planet.  But, I would also say that this includes every angelic or demonic spirit that exists also.  All of these are spirit beings, and had to originate from God, the Father of spirits.  That to me is just basic logic.  I think we also have to briefly examine the Biblical fact that Jesus the Son of God was born of a natural woman.  So we can clearly see that God the Father can also have natural physical children.  But because the Bible says in John 3:16 that Jesus was the “Only begotten Son” we know from the Greek word there that “begotten” means physically born.  God is not going to have any more physical children, ever!  Mary was the only virgin birth that God will ever participate in.   So if God is said to be the Father of spirits, can the Son also be a Father of spirits?  We know that Jesus was a natural male, and capable of having natural children in the normal way with a natural woman.  But, just because some idiots have tried to say Jesus had sex with someone and fathered a child, do not be so easily deceived.  Jesus never had any natural children on the earth.  If he did we would be in serious trouble, there would be no possibility for salvation for us then.  But, let us look at the other possibility.  Can Jesus now in heaven, the second part of the Trinity now have a spiritual child and become a new Father God?  I think that is an interesting concept to consider.  Think of it this way, God created natural physical things as a view into the spiritual dimension.  These natural things are shadows,  types or patterns of spiritual things that we cannot see.  These natural things point us to and give us glimpses into a realm of spiritual possibilities that we cannot see with our physical eyes or senses.

So what did God create in this world?  Adam and Eve were the beginning of the human race and they had children and probably lots of them.  Certainly, Cain and Abel came from Adam and Eve.  These two first parents were patterns of spiritual things to come.  God created the family of Adam and Eve as a separate and independent family unit from God’s family in Heaven.   Adam was created as a pattern of a father to every natural living human being on this planet.  Adam could be called the father of the human race.  Whatever happens to Adam, happens to everyone that comes from Adam.  Adam had a child and his son had a child.  This is also a pattern of something else to come.  There is a spiritual truth being implied here that anything that happens to God the Father happens to every spiritual descendant or male child of their spiritual Father.  That was a major clue to why Satan should not have killed Jesus Christ, if you didn’t understand it, I’m sorry.  I don’t have time to explain it right now.   The current subject is about spiritual fathers and sons and can they have children.  If God the Father can have children, then God the Son can also have children.   This is just basic reasoning and logic based upon patterns we see from God’s creation.  I do hope you are following my logic.  But, let us take a look at what the Bible says, here are some interesting verses that pertain to our current subject:

Eph 2:18  For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

These verses in Ephesians gives us two valuable conformations, first that God is the Father and that He also has a family.  God’s household is comprised of a family of spiritual beings in heaven.  These are representative of the pattern that God implemented with Adam and Eve’s household and family household on the earth.   A natural family with natural parents giving birth to natural children.  All of these are patterns for spiritual truths concerning spiritual families.

Now let’s explore this logic scripturally and see if it holds water.  We need to see if there are any scriptures that speak about Jesus being a father.  Let’s start this analysis with this scripture in Hebrews:

Heb 3:6  But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

When I read this verse I almost missed what it was saying.  It is so interesting that I studied it for a long time until God showed me what it was really saying.  You see this verse is speaking of Jesus our Lord, the Son of God.  This verse declares that Jesus has established a new house.  This is a new house that didn’t exist before.  But what does it mean when it says house?   A new house implies a new family.  In fact if you look up the word “house” in the Strong’s you will find that it means “a family”.  Why did God have to establish a new spiritual family through Jesus Christ?  Apparently there was some major problems with the old spiritual family of God.  Without getting into the details, because I would have to write you a book, we need to realize that God’s spiritual family included all of the spiritual beings, angels, Michael, Gabriel, and Satan (Lucifer) and his demons prior to Jesus coming and dying on the cross.  Remember that the Bible says that Satan would not have crucified Jesus if he had known the consequences for killing him (1 Cor 2:8).  You can see from that scripture that something happened on the cross to cause Satan to be very unhappy with the outcome.  Something happened that affected him directly and personally.  I wish I could go into in more depth but I just don’t have the time right now.  I did give you a major clue earlier on this subject so I hope you can put the pieces together and seek the answers for yourself or you can wait until I have time to get into it. 

So we can see from Hebrews 3:6 that Jesus has established a new family unit for God.  Let me ask you this basic question, that I guess many don’t know in the world today, but what constitutes a family?  What is a family defined as?   What does a family unit consist of?   I believe according to the Bible definition, a family is a man and his wife and their children.  If you try to define a family any other way, you are wrong.  Hollywood and television want to redefine marriage and modern families.  There is even a new TV show called Modern Family that promotes the homosexual lifestyle and other abnormal behaviors.  But we have to stick with what God thinks, God’s definition of marriage and family and only go by that.  Jesus when confronted on the subject of marriage and divorce said, “can’t you read?  in the beginning God created them male and female.”  That of course was my paraphrase, but nonetheless it is the basic concept that was conveyed.  We know that Adam and Eve were a natural pattern for Christ and the church.  At least, I know that.  We can see that God calls Jesus Christ the last Adam in the New Testament (1 Cor 15:45).  God connects Jesus to the pattern of Adam directly.  We can definitely see that Adam was a natural pattern of the spiritual Jesus.  Adam had one wife who was the body of Adam, Jesus has one wife who is the body of Christ.

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam‘s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What is the subject of this verse?  It is directly related to Adam, and God says Adam is a pattern of Jesus to come.  There are many other parallels and patterns that we could explore, but let’s continue with our subject and study can Jesus have children.

We know from Hollywood and a non-Christian author named Dan Brown that Satan has attempted to say that Jesus who was a man, had a sexual relationship with a woman on the earth and had children.  I often times wondered why it was important for Satan to try to plant these misdirected seeds in the minds of people on the earth.  Satan rarely does anything that does not have a purpose.  I believe it is an attempt to distract us from the truth.  True Christians will always reject that Jesus had a sexual relationship with a natural woman, but what else does the words of Dan Brown do to us?  They automatically cause you to reject any other new assertion that Jesus could be a spiritual father of a spiritual child.  The automatic conclusion would be, if we reject the physical child birth we must also reject a spiritual child birth. But here is the main difference, we reject the physical child birth, because it is not in the Bible.  So we should see if the spiritual child birth is in the Bible.

We can see so many verses that give widespread implication of the establishment of a new family of God if we look for them.  Here is a verse that speaks to us along these lines:

Gal 6:10  As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Using logic again we can see this verse speaks of two divisions of people.  Those who believe and those who believe not.  Those who believe are a people in a new family or a new household of faith.  This word “household” literally means a close relative, those who are in the same family.  But this is not just any family this is His family, the family unit of Jesus Christ.  Those that have believed on Him.

So we have seen scriptures that indicate Jesus has established a new family of God and that this family is a new spiritual household with new family members.  So does Jesus Christ have children?  Here is another scripture that I found absolutely fascinating:

Isa 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

This verse is absolutely more proof that people read things and don’t see what it says.   I’ve had this Bible verse printed in a bunch of my Christmas cards and I didn’t see it for a long time.  Did you see it?  Is this verse about Jesus Christ?  Sure it is!  Jesus is the child that was born, and the son that was given.  Since it is currently the Christmas season, we can certainly see that Jesus, the Son of God is also being called a father.  This verse in Isaiah 9:6 calls Jesus Christ the “Everlasting Father“.  Do you understand the implications behind that little statement?  I doubt very seriously that you do.  Why does God need to put an adjective “everlasting” in front of the noun “father”?  The reason you do this is to differentiate one father from another father.  You see I thought God the Father was the Everlasting Father?  Oh well, I guess I won’t go there today. 

Did you know that you can’t be called a father or a mother, unless you have children.  That is just a basic Bible fact.  So if we read in Isaiah 9:6 that God calls Jesus the “Everlasting Father” we can conclude that he has children.  There are two kinds of fathers in the Bible, one is a natural father and the other is a spiritual father.  A natural father is only someone that has sown natural sperm into a natural woman and she has conceived and has given birth to a natural child.  Then he is a called a father.  Spiritually speaking a pastor, a priest or a bishop could be a spiritual father.  All of the apostles were considered spiritual fathers.  Paul was considered a spiritual father.  In fact any Christian can sow spiritual seed into a non-Christian and if they believe and Christ is conceived in them, then they also become a spiritual father.    You see there are spiritual families as well as natural families.  That means there are spiritual seeds that were sown into the hearts of men and women and they have believed and accepted Jesus as Lord.  The spiritual process follows a pattern of the natural process so that we can understand it.

So I have given you a lot of new information to think on.  I have given you direct and indirect scriptures that indicate Jesus Christ is a Son who has established a new family for God.  This family consists of Jesus the bridegroom, the Church his wife and some potential spiritual children.  You have to study the pattern of Adam and Eve and you have to put some pieces of the puzzle together so I know there are still some that don’t see what I’m saying.  Before I comclude let me quickly give you one more revelation from the Word of God.  Jesus called Himself the Son of God and the Son of Man.  The Hebrew word “Son” (and Jesus was a Hebrew) means “the builder of the family name”.  In other words Jesus said I am building a new family for God and for Adam.   Everytime Jesus said He was a Son, He implies that He will have children.  This basically leaves Satan and the other demons out of the new family established by Jesus and His bride.   I guess I’ll stop there in order not to overwhelm you with too much new information all at once.

I hope you realize how difficult it is to give you just a little bit and not cover a subject with adequate scriptural backing.  If what I write is just my opinion it is not worth a dime, but if it is God’s Word, then you cannot dismiss it or write it off, unless you are stupid.  All we have seen so far is the possibility that this child in Revelation 12 is a child of the church and Jesus, we have not really concluded who the child is, so please realize it will take more time for me to explain what God has taught me.  We will continue with the subject of the identity of the woman in Revelation 12 in my next blog.  I pray that you are thinking with your spiritual eyes open and that you can understand the Bible lessons being presented.  Thank You for taking the time to study the Word of God with me.

If you would like to continue reading this series, you can continue with Part 7.

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About agapegeek

Using the Bible to understand the Bible! Advanced Bible study for mature Chrisitians who want to grow.

Posted on December 9, 2009, in Bible Study, Chapter 12, Revelation and tagged , , , , , , , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 3 Comments.

  1. Agama waouchu

    will it be the same if the woman is a person? what if the woman mentioned is a person?

    • The context and the description of the woman require a non-literal interpretation of the woman. The woman is clothed symbolically with stars and the sun. She is standing on the moon another symbol. She is at war with a dragon another symbol. Since these symbolic figurative reference point us to spiritual realities it makes no real logical sense to try to make the woman anything but another spiritual reference. I hope and pray that this will accepted by everyone. God Bless

  2. Kent and Deanna

    You’re doing a great job on this blog. Keep it up!

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